A women-only fitness center in Erlangen, Bavaria, has been ordered by the government to pay compensation to a trans-identified male after the facility’s owner denied him permission to use the women’s showers.
throwing up in my mouth at the thought of this appalling man showing up when women and girls are showering and changing clothes. how bloody he dare he. it's beyond wrong. it's dangerous, disgusting and abusive.
This isn't about gyms or bathrooms or even sports. This is a war on women and children, and the deranged men and their transmaidens wish to destroy all boundaries. The most disturbing part of this for me is that the politicians in power, along with the courts, had to allow this to happen. I have huge respect for Doris Lange standing firm.
Trans need to behave like decent caring people instead of always wanting it their way or the highway! They make me sick with their”me,me, me”! They’re not the only ones here, in fact , they’re a tiny minority with a huge ego that wants others to kowtow to them!
They do already have a category in men's sport. Are you advocating for cheats category? No human ever changed sex. Men are men, even when they claim not to be.
I actually would like to see a mixed-sex, or general, catagory. Because then both men and women who are taking hormones (whether for gender/appearance purposes, or for medical reasons like menopausal symptoms or cancer) can be accommodated all together. Because, sure, this person could play with the men without any probably for anyone except him. But what of the woman mentioned in the article who quit the women's team because she was taking testosterone and noticed she was no longer well-matched or even safe with the women? After all, newly trans identified females now outnumber newly trans identified males nearly 2:1. And, ultimately, many of those who identify as trans are actually mentally ill (although certainly there is no shortage of opportunistic pervs) and suffering from body image problems, identity disturbance, or delusions, all of which may be quite severe. Athletic participation is generally good for both mental and physical health (even if you don't care about the trans people, improving the health of any segment of the population is a win for the general public both fiscally and socially/safety-wise), and it also is often good for helping people develop better social skills like teamwork, dedication, perseverance, and losing gracefully. Again, it's good for everyone if anyone improves themselves in those areas.
So, I say, if they want to play, let them play, but they need a division in which to do so without endangering anyone else. If that means forming a new catagory, fine. The benefits to society outweigh any costs that would be incurred. Of course, there would be a large number who refused to participate, protested, and criticized the formation of such a category. But, i imagine, given the rapidly rising number of trans identified people out there, that there would still be some number who would participate and benefit.
"trans" - as in people who have changed sex is a category of humans that contains ZERO people. Transsexuals are humans of both sexes who intentionally take wrong sex hormones and surgically alter their bodies to better mimic the stereotypical appearance of the sex they are not.
I see no utility to create a sports category for people to compete against each other which combined people who take drugs necessary to treat genuine illness (cancer, etc) along with those who take body altering drugs electively. The whole point of sports competition is to display how individual humans (differentiated between male and female) who discipline themselves working to attain peak health and fitness can demonstrate the best performance human bodies can achieve. It is intended to inspire and encourage awe for physical prowess.
I use the word "trans" as shorthand (easier to type on mobile) for people who identify as transgender or transsexual or non-binary. I thought it was clear enough who I was referring to here, but I hope that helps clarify.
Your statement about the "point" of sports competition may be (partially) accurate when discussing the most elite levels-Olympians, national teams, and so forth. This article, and my post, was referring to a recreational club team (at least, that's how I interpret it from the US; I may not understand how things work in Europe). I look at those clubs as being in the same catagory as k-12 recreational and school sports, college intramural leagues, and so on. There are always a few players on those types on teams who are very talented and dedicated, and who strive to compete at or near the elite level. The majority of participants, though, are not in it to be the best in the world or even necessarily to win. They play to have fun, to move their bodies, to spend time outdoors or away from their desk and computer/phone, to socialize and build teamwork and a social network, and to attempt to reach individual goals (which are highly individualized and could be anything from weight loss to setting a team or league record to simply managing to hit a single home run during the season to playing in every game) and to gain a sense of mastery.
At that level, I see no real advantage to anyone in completely excluding anyone from playing, as long as they are not unsafe or repeatedly, knowingly violating rules. Since anyone who is taking certain drugs, including but not limited to testosterone, may sometimes be unable to safely play with others of their age and biological sex, if there are enough such people to be grouped together in their own category, why not? No one is forcing you or anyone else to watch, participate, or support those or any other teams. But, I stand by my initial point which is that participation in recreational sports is known to have many benefits to the individual, and everyone is better off if anyone becomes healthier-physically and/or mentally. The benefits to society range from better behavior to less strain and expense on the health care system.
Finally, I find your last point rather narrow-minded. It seems you are suggesting that not only the "trans" group, but anyone who has physical or mental disabilities, shouldn't bother to participate in any athletics even when they can do so safely. Again, at this level, what is the harm if an individual weakened by a chronic illness wants to play? Are you really suggesting that they don't benefit, or that it's somehow too difficult for them to be accommodated on any level-even the rec teams that play strictly for fun and don't even keep score? Many, many people participate in all sorts of athletics, knowing that will never "inspire awe" in others through their performance, but they still do it because it's good for them and they enjoy it. Are you really trying to argue that no one should play sports unless they're an elite performer? Or did I misinterpret your post?
Absolutely ridiculous that this man should be offered any compensation. I would like to see him sued for emotional distress he is causing women by trying to watch them taking a shower/working out. That would stop this movement dead in its tracks if there was actual consequences for perverts who want to creep on women. These institutions that allow the pervs in should be sued as well.
In Australia, the Human Right Commission (AHRC) has decided that lesbians in Victoria must accept trans identified men in their social activities (eg, a lesbian dance) and in the federal court the AHRC is supporting a trans identified man in his fight to gain entry to a women only app (Tickle v Giggle). The fight over women only spaces is crucial to women’s safety, sexual orientation, freedom and rights.
When you say "trans" people "identify as" this is the same as saying they are people who believe in something that cannot be verified, such as religion or astrology. Fortunately liberal humanist societies have mostly decided that while individual citizens are entitled to hold and practise their personal beliefs, the political state is not going to make laws compelling others to comply with things they don't believe in. Regrettably, due to the spread of Wokism (the mind virus) into academia, the managerial class and elite politics, gender identity activists have corrupted our polity and this is why a significant and growing proportion of society is pushing back. We do not believe in gender identities. "Trans" identifiers are a group of people who obsess about altering their outer appearance to mimic stereotypical versions of the opposite sex. When they choose to devote their lives to that as adults I don't care. But I do care when they're advocating to change laws (such as self ID, and child access to puberty blockers, etc), which is why I support the grass roots movement to reveal the transvestite movement as a dangerous cult that must be contained.
Its a marvellous thing if adults and children want to participate in team sports at a community level and I remember doing so as a child in the 1960s. I was very good at athletics and gymnastics, got into some championship level comps. There were no trannies back in the day! Obviously sporting activity at that level is to be encouraged but not when it is cynically being used to advance the beliefs of the trans movement. Would you support children having to learn about Islam and wear keffiyahs because they are playing sport? Similarly, there is no justification for kids or adults who are pretending to be the opposite sex to have special rights to make other participants comply with their dogmatic claims. Children must participate in their sex categories and its a great learning opportunity for them to understand the sexed reality of male and female bodies. Males are always going to have more muscle and be stronger than females.
This is a minor quibble compared to the subject of the story, but do we have to include "balding" in the description as though it somehow makes this man even MORE male or less female? First off, it almost sounds like the flip side of gender ideology: women must have thick long and well-styled hair, while men's hair must be short. But, there are a significant number of women (biological females), especially during and after pregnancy and/or menopause, who have thinning hairlines not all that different from what is shown in the photo of the man. There are also a smaller number of females who have alopecia that is more severe, where they are totally or partially absolutely bald. This can be a natural condition, or it can be medication-related. But, it kind of rubs me wrong to suggest that anyone who is "balding" might be even more of a grifter than, say, a trans identified man with a full head of long curly hair. If the fact that he is losing hair is supposed to indicate he's not even trying to pass, obviously he can't help the fact that his hair is falling out any more than a female could.
Sorry if this seems nitpicky. I just don't like using aspects of people's appearance, particularly those that are outside the control of the person (at least without a massive investment of money and time), to belittle people, no matter who they are or what they've done. Because if we start making fun of the shape of someone's nose because they're a sexual offender or whatever, it kind of seems to put having an unfortunate nose-something that is NATURAL and completely outside individuals' control and that has zero bearing on their behavior or personality-as somehow being on the same level as, or indicative of, bad behavior. I see this all too often: outlets or individuals start poking fun at involuntary aspects of the appearance of people they dislike or disagree with. It's somehow especially disappointing when coming from somewhere that aims to support, celebrate, and/or elevate women.
The total lack of concern for the actual women who have joined a female gym is abhorrent.
Exactly! These trans” women” think they can run,it over everyone else! Selfish bastards that actually hate women!
throwing up in my mouth at the thought of this appalling man showing up when women and girls are showering and changing clothes. how bloody he dare he. it's beyond wrong. it's dangerous, disgusting and abusive.
This isn't about gyms or bathrooms or even sports. This is a war on women and children, and the deranged men and their transmaidens wish to destroy all boundaries. The most disturbing part of this for me is that the politicians in power, along with the courts, had to allow this to happen. I have huge respect for Doris Lange standing firm.
Trans need to behave like decent caring people instead of always wanting it their way or the highway! They make me sick with their”me,me, me”! They’re not the only ones here, in fact , they’re a tiny minority with a huge ego that wants others to kowtow to them!
I feel only disgust for organizations that choose men to perform with women . Trans need to have their own category.
They do already have a category in men's sport. Are you advocating for cheats category? No human ever changed sex. Men are men, even when they claim not to be.
I actually would like to see a mixed-sex, or general, catagory. Because then both men and women who are taking hormones (whether for gender/appearance purposes, or for medical reasons like menopausal symptoms or cancer) can be accommodated all together. Because, sure, this person could play with the men without any probably for anyone except him. But what of the woman mentioned in the article who quit the women's team because she was taking testosterone and noticed she was no longer well-matched or even safe with the women? After all, newly trans identified females now outnumber newly trans identified males nearly 2:1. And, ultimately, many of those who identify as trans are actually mentally ill (although certainly there is no shortage of opportunistic pervs) and suffering from body image problems, identity disturbance, or delusions, all of which may be quite severe. Athletic participation is generally good for both mental and physical health (even if you don't care about the trans people, improving the health of any segment of the population is a win for the general public both fiscally and socially/safety-wise), and it also is often good for helping people develop better social skills like teamwork, dedication, perseverance, and losing gracefully. Again, it's good for everyone if anyone improves themselves in those areas.
So, I say, if they want to play, let them play, but they need a division in which to do so without endangering anyone else. If that means forming a new catagory, fine. The benefits to society outweigh any costs that would be incurred. Of course, there would be a large number who refused to participate, protested, and criticized the formation of such a category. But, i imagine, given the rapidly rising number of trans identified people out there, that there would still be some number who would participate and benefit.
"trans" - as in people who have changed sex is a category of humans that contains ZERO people. Transsexuals are humans of both sexes who intentionally take wrong sex hormones and surgically alter their bodies to better mimic the stereotypical appearance of the sex they are not.
I see no utility to create a sports category for people to compete against each other which combined people who take drugs necessary to treat genuine illness (cancer, etc) along with those who take body altering drugs electively. The whole point of sports competition is to display how individual humans (differentiated between male and female) who discipline themselves working to attain peak health and fitness can demonstrate the best performance human bodies can achieve. It is intended to inspire and encourage awe for physical prowess.
I use the word "trans" as shorthand (easier to type on mobile) for people who identify as transgender or transsexual or non-binary. I thought it was clear enough who I was referring to here, but I hope that helps clarify.
Your statement about the "point" of sports competition may be (partially) accurate when discussing the most elite levels-Olympians, national teams, and so forth. This article, and my post, was referring to a recreational club team (at least, that's how I interpret it from the US; I may not understand how things work in Europe). I look at those clubs as being in the same catagory as k-12 recreational and school sports, college intramural leagues, and so on. There are always a few players on those types on teams who are very talented and dedicated, and who strive to compete at or near the elite level. The majority of participants, though, are not in it to be the best in the world or even necessarily to win. They play to have fun, to move their bodies, to spend time outdoors or away from their desk and computer/phone, to socialize and build teamwork and a social network, and to attempt to reach individual goals (which are highly individualized and could be anything from weight loss to setting a team or league record to simply managing to hit a single home run during the season to playing in every game) and to gain a sense of mastery.
At that level, I see no real advantage to anyone in completely excluding anyone from playing, as long as they are not unsafe or repeatedly, knowingly violating rules. Since anyone who is taking certain drugs, including but not limited to testosterone, may sometimes be unable to safely play with others of their age and biological sex, if there are enough such people to be grouped together in their own category, why not? No one is forcing you or anyone else to watch, participate, or support those or any other teams. But, I stand by my initial point which is that participation in recreational sports is known to have many benefits to the individual, and everyone is better off if anyone becomes healthier-physically and/or mentally. The benefits to society range from better behavior to less strain and expense on the health care system.
Finally, I find your last point rather narrow-minded. It seems you are suggesting that not only the "trans" group, but anyone who has physical or mental disabilities, shouldn't bother to participate in any athletics even when they can do so safely. Again, at this level, what is the harm if an individual weakened by a chronic illness wants to play? Are you really suggesting that they don't benefit, or that it's somehow too difficult for them to be accommodated on any level-even the rec teams that play strictly for fun and don't even keep score? Many, many people participate in all sorts of athletics, knowing that will never "inspire awe" in others through their performance, but they still do it because it's good for them and they enjoy it. Are you really trying to argue that no one should play sports unless they're an elite performer? Or did I misinterpret your post?
Absolutely ridiculous that this man should be offered any compensation. I would like to see him sued for emotional distress he is causing women by trying to watch them taking a shower/working out. That would stop this movement dead in its tracks if there was actual consequences for perverts who want to creep on women. These institutions that allow the pervs in should be sued as well.
In Australia, the Human Right Commission (AHRC) has decided that lesbians in Victoria must accept trans identified men in their social activities (eg, a lesbian dance) and in the federal court the AHRC is supporting a trans identified man in his fight to gain entry to a women only app (Tickle v Giggle). The fight over women only spaces is crucial to women’s safety, sexual orientation, freedom and rights.
Just sickening.
When you say "trans" people "identify as" this is the same as saying they are people who believe in something that cannot be verified, such as religion or astrology. Fortunately liberal humanist societies have mostly decided that while individual citizens are entitled to hold and practise their personal beliefs, the political state is not going to make laws compelling others to comply with things they don't believe in. Regrettably, due to the spread of Wokism (the mind virus) into academia, the managerial class and elite politics, gender identity activists have corrupted our polity and this is why a significant and growing proportion of society is pushing back. We do not believe in gender identities. "Trans" identifiers are a group of people who obsess about altering their outer appearance to mimic stereotypical versions of the opposite sex. When they choose to devote their lives to that as adults I don't care. But I do care when they're advocating to change laws (such as self ID, and child access to puberty blockers, etc), which is why I support the grass roots movement to reveal the transvestite movement as a dangerous cult that must be contained.
Its a marvellous thing if adults and children want to participate in team sports at a community level and I remember doing so as a child in the 1960s. I was very good at athletics and gymnastics, got into some championship level comps. There were no trannies back in the day! Obviously sporting activity at that level is to be encouraged but not when it is cynically being used to advance the beliefs of the trans movement. Would you support children having to learn about Islam and wear keffiyahs because they are playing sport? Similarly, there is no justification for kids or adults who are pretending to be the opposite sex to have special rights to make other participants comply with their dogmatic claims. Children must participate in their sex categories and its a great learning opportunity for them to understand the sexed reality of male and female bodies. Males are always going to have more muscle and be stronger than females.
This is a minor quibble compared to the subject of the story, but do we have to include "balding" in the description as though it somehow makes this man even MORE male or less female? First off, it almost sounds like the flip side of gender ideology: women must have thick long and well-styled hair, while men's hair must be short. But, there are a significant number of women (biological females), especially during and after pregnancy and/or menopause, who have thinning hairlines not all that different from what is shown in the photo of the man. There are also a smaller number of females who have alopecia that is more severe, where they are totally or partially absolutely bald. This can be a natural condition, or it can be medication-related. But, it kind of rubs me wrong to suggest that anyone who is "balding" might be even more of a grifter than, say, a trans identified man with a full head of long curly hair. If the fact that he is losing hair is supposed to indicate he's not even trying to pass, obviously he can't help the fact that his hair is falling out any more than a female could.
Sorry if this seems nitpicky. I just don't like using aspects of people's appearance, particularly those that are outside the control of the person (at least without a massive investment of money and time), to belittle people, no matter who they are or what they've done. Because if we start making fun of the shape of someone's nose because they're a sexual offender or whatever, it kind of seems to put having an unfortunate nose-something that is NATURAL and completely outside individuals' control and that has zero bearing on their behavior or personality-as somehow being on the same level as, or indicative of, bad behavior. I see this all too often: outlets or individuals start poking fun at involuntary aspects of the appearance of people they dislike or disagree with. It's somehow especially disappointing when coming from somewhere that aims to support, celebrate, and/or elevate women.